The Other Fifteen

The Orioles and Chicago Cubs have not had any recent talks about All-Star second baseman Brian Roberts, pushing the potential deal toward Opening Day or beyond.

Despite engaging in trade talks for more than three months, the two teams still have not agreed to a package that both find suitable. According to two baseball sources, the Cubs have offered infielder Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Sean Gallagher and Donald Veal, and one other player for Roberts, but the Orioles are holding out for a better offer.

...

The sticking point of the deal appears to be the inclusion of a fourth – or a possible fifth – player in the deal. The Orioles have inquired about several of the Cubs' prospects, including reliever Jose Ceda and outfielders Felix Pie and Tyler Colvin.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Donald Veal, Repetative, Ronny Cedeno, Sean Gallagher, Trade Rumors

As we enter Day 235 of the Brian Roberts Hostage Crisis (note: not the actual number of days), it seems we are no closer to resolving this. Jim Hendry says "''There have been no active talks in any trade situation in the last five, six days." (Check the Sun-Times, Trib or Daily Herald.)

This directly contradicts what Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman said recently:

The Cubs and Orioles have resumed trade talks involving second baseman Brian Roberts, and one person familiar with the talks indicated discussions were starting to get serious.

In one of the trade proposals being discussed, outfielder Jay Payton would accompany Roberts to Chicago.

But let's look at the phrasing here of these reports.

Sun-Times:

The Cubs still want to add at least one hitter by Opening Day, but multiple high-ranking team officials shot down Internet and radio reports this week that trade talks with the Baltimore Orioles regarding second baseman Brian Roberts have resumed in recent days.

Trib:

The Cubs still hope to acquire second baseman Brian Roberts and an outfielder before the end of spring training, but general manager Jim Hendry shot down Internet and radio rumors that a trade is imminent.

Daily Herald:

The Cubs claimed to know nothing of the information of recent radio and Internet reports that had a deal for Baltimore second baseman Brian Roberts close to being done.

I'm sure Jon Heyman would be interested to hear that he's the Internet now.

Speaking of Internet rumors, by the way, Phil Rodgers has something of one:

Gallagher, Ronny Cedeno and at least one more prospect likely will be moved to Baltimore in any deal for Roberts, but if Felix Pie wins the center field job, the Cubs will need a backup center fielder because Sam Fuld would start out in the minors. As of now, that utility job is Cedeno's to lose, and he's hitting .300.

And if Sam Fuld wins the starting center fielder job, then we won't need a backup center fielder, because Sam Fuld doesn't need days off?

Interesting to hear that it's "Cedeno's job to lose," although I'm not sure how much I can trust those pesky Internet rumors.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Repetative, Trade Rumors

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Chicago Cubs, Ryan Dempster

The chances of the Orioles trading All-Star second baseman Brian Roberts to the Cubs seem to diminish each day.

Roberts is a favorite of Peter Angelos, the one player who maintains an open dialogue with the owner. Thus, Angelos is reluctant to trade him — and especially reluctant if the Orioles do not receive a knockout package in return.

At this late stage, such a package almost certainly would need to include shortstop Ronny Cedeno, who would take over at shortstop, with Luis Hernandez moving to second base.

The Orioles, though, would be left with perhaps the game's worst middle infield. And they probably could get Cedeno, who is out of options, in a separate deal.

It would be just about like the Cubs to trade Cedeno for Peyton at this point, wouldn't it.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Repetative, Trade Rumors

SI's John Heyman has the latest Brian Roberts rumor:

There is now a feeling in Orioles land that Angelos may be balking at the negotiated haul for Roberts, which according to sources, is a very fair three-player package of young pitcher Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton and infielder Ronny Cedeno.

We'll leave that without further comment.

The New York Times has a very nice profile of Kosuke Fukudome.

Phil Rodgers previews the season. Some midlights:

The trade of Jones to Detroit opens center field for second-year man Felix Pie, who hit .215 as a rookie. The other options include the diminutive Sam Fuld, who was an MVP in the Arizona Fall League, or moving DeRosa to right field and Fukudome to center

...

Keep an eye on Bobby Scales. Signed to a minor-league contract, the 30-year-old switch-hitter can play all over the field (primarily second base and the outfield) and had a .373 on-base percentage in Triple A last year.

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Carmen Pignatiello: The left-hander from Providence Catholic made his big-league debut in 2007, appearing in four games. He could play a significant role this season, with Will Ohman having been traded to Atlanta, but faces competition from Neal Cotts and a deep cast of right-handed relievers. He'll almost certainly get back to Chicago this season, even if he opens the year at Iowa.

My desire to see Carmen Pignatiello in the bullpen is well known. Scales seems interesting in a "not Mike Fontenot" sort of way. And, well.. I would like to think that Murton would move to right if Fukudome moved to center, rather than opening up a hole at second base. But what do I know?

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Phil Rodgers, Repetative, Trade Rumors

Like Bedard, Roberts is two years shy of free agency, and he has shown apprehension about being on a rebuilding team. Roberts could also yield three or four players, fitting MacPhail's blueprint of getting both quality and quantity in return.

MacPhail has talked extensively to the Chicago Cubs about Roberts, discussing several packages but not settling on one. Trade talks very well could drag into spring training with pitchers Sean Gallagher, Sean Marshall, and Donnie Veal, infielder Ronny Cedeno and outfielders Felix Pie, Tyler Colvin and Matt Murton among the names mentioned.

Several reports have indicated that the Cubs are unwilling to move either Pie or Colvin, a potential sticking point for some members of the organization. And the wild card in the situation remains Orioles owner Peter Angelos, who has long admired Roberts and nixed a trade last season that would have sent him to the Atlanta Braves.

"I'd still like to add some people before the start of the season," Hendry said. "You can't guarantee that will happen, but we'll keep our options open. We're going to continue to look around. We'll have our scouts all over during spring training in Florida and Arizona."

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Roberts is affordable, earning $6.3 million in '08 and $8 million in '09. He has a limited no-trade clause, but those who know him say he's eager to bail out of Baltimore and come to the North Side. Hendry has been given the green light from club Chairman Crane Kenney to increase payroll, and said he doesn't worry that Tribune Co. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Sam Zell, who ultimately controls the purse strings, will affect the way he operates.

Hendry said Kenney instructed him to go ahead and make "a few more additions before camp."

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Repetative, Trade Rumors

The latest Roberts rumors will lead off (much like some are hoping Roberts will). The Rocky Mountain News chimes in, saying that a Roberts-for-Marshall swap is possible. I think that's something I could live with.

The Red Sox are rumored to be looking at dealing Crisp for pitching. Maybe they want Dempster?

I'll keep this a rolling update throughout the day as events warrant.

Contrary to popular belief, knowledgeable Cubs sources say the two teams have not gotten serious about discussing specific players the Orioles would want for Roberts.

It's highly unlikely the Cubs will trade center-field prospect Felix Pie or former top draft pick Tyler Colvin for Roberts. But a package possibly involving pitcher Sean Marshall or Sean Gallagher plus another player seems more in the ballpark.

That matches the impression I'm getting from other outlets, unless you want to count the "Gallagher, Murton, Veal and Cedeno" rumor that has surfaced on Orioles message boards.

Uh, no. It's just that after nearly 180 pages of discussion here and stuff that's been nothing more than speculation on mainstream media blogs (see Trib) and blogosphere blogs, certain truths have been constant: The Cubs have been steadfast in saying they weren't going to trade Hill, Pie or Colvin. That was true earlier, and it's true now. Talks between the Cubs and Orioles have never gotten to the "yes" or "no" stage despite a report during the convention that the Baltimore owner nixed a 7-for-2 trade. The Cubs remain interested in Roberts. The names I've put out there are the ones I've been led to believe they'll discuss with the Orioles. The Cubs feel it's too early in Colvin's developmental stage to trade him, especially after investing a top draft pick. The Orioles are going to finish last or next-to-last with or without Roberts. The way I read it, the Cubs feel that MacPhail might as well take a decent offer for Roberts and not try to hold people up or risk being stuck with him, if "stuck" is the right word. I've read all kinds of things about deals being close. Nothing has been close. That may change in the next few days, but it seems to me the Cubs are ready to move on with or without Roberts.

I'd say the odds are 50-50 at best on this trade happening. Nobody is an "untouchable" in the right trade, but guys like Colvin, Hill, Pie and Ceda aren't going in this kind of deal. I'm sure MacPhail had a hard enough time selling the owner on the Bedard trade. Can you imagine Andy telling Angelos he's going to trade his favorite-son player for a guy or guys he's never, ever heard of, especially guys who haven't played above Double-A ball?

They'd been looking at Marlon Byrd, but Texas isn't an easy organizaton with which to deal, either. That's the hardest thing for most people to grasp. To make a trade, you need to teams to have mutual interest, and even then, most trades don't go down for whatever reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs tried to make a deal toward the end of spring training if this Roberts thing doesn't get done.

Shortstop never was a priority. I don't know why this whole Greene thing got started _ just because he didn't agree to an extension? There's time for that. The Padres don't need to move him. The ship sailed on Tejada awhile back. I never heard Renteria's name talked about seriously.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Boston Red Sox, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Repetative, Trade Rumors

The physical is expected to extend into Friday, meaning it's possible that the trade, which will send young center fielder Adam Jones, reliever George Sherrill and three pitching prospects to Baltimore, might not be announced until Saturday.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Boston Red Sox, Repetative, Trade Rumors

• The Cubs were offered Coco Crisp from the Red Sox, but would rather acquire someone that's a a top of the order threat, doesn't threaten our young crop of center fielders, and serves more of a platoon role.
• A Brian Roberts deal seems less likely; the Orioles seem to be now insisting on Felix Pie, and the Cubs are telling them how much fun it can be to go fly a kite in a rain storm. Talks have been "infrequent."

This contradicts reports yesterday from Buster Olney that the deal was likely, and would center around Gallagher. Rosenthal has the much better track record and offers up more solid details.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Trade Rumors

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Trade Rumors

Good news from Ken Rosenthal:

The Orioles will need an innings-eater if they trade Erik Bedard, and the addition of Cubs righty Jason Marquis in a package for second baseman Brian Roberts could enable them to demand better prospects from Chicago. Marquis' three-year, $21 million contract is back-loaded — he's earning $6.375 this season and $9.875 million in 2009. It is doubtful the Cubs would include Felix Pie in a deal for Roberts; Pie could be their center fielder for the next six years.

There is that "could enable them to demand better prospects" line, but realistically I think they've demanded about all the prospects we have anyway.

Remember:

• Trading Marquis: Good.
• Trading Pie: Bad.

Addendum: More from Jayson Stark:

There has been so much talk for so long about the Cubs trading for Brian Roberts, you might think that deal would go down 30 seconds after the Erik Bedard trade is official. Uh, not so fast. According to teams that have spoken to the Cubs and Orioles, they still haven't settled on any of the specifics. The Orioles would get back a starting pitcher -- either Sean Gallagher or Sean Marshall. But beyond that, nothing is particularly concrete. Felix Pie has been much-rumored as the second piece. But when one baseball man was asked whether Pie was likely to be in the trade, he replied: "I doubt it."

So corroboration on the no Felix Pie thing. And subbing Marshall for Gallagher again makes the trade much more palatable.

I think that the price on Roberts is coming down - we saw the same thing happen with Santana and Bedard. Remember, when all of the ridiculous rumors were flying around a few months ago, they weren't accompanied by an actual trade. The Orioles still have a lot of holes to fill, and the Cubs think they can probably win the division as is, although they'd like reinforcements. So it's plausible that this trade occurs without turning our farm system to ash.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Trade Rumors

Ever wondered why the Cubs weren't mentioned as contenders for Johann Santana? Why there's little serious talk of us being in on Bedard? Well, Kevin Goldstein's top 100 prospects list is out. Feast your eyes on all two Cubs prospects - Soto and Vitters, if you're wondering. So... that's why. (If you want to argue with Goldstein's rating... not really important in this specific instance. I'd say that Goldstein's ratings are similar, at least, to a lot of organizations' internal rankings. When it comes to trades, players are only worth what someone else is willing to give you for them.)

Keith Law is a bit kindlier to the Cubs in his top 100 list - Gallagher and Donaldson also make the cut. Same story, though.

USA Today previews the Cubs going into camp. Nothing dramatic if you've been keeping up with things this offseason, but a decent summary. Of note: Vitters will start the season in Peoria. Also amusing, at least to me - the Cardinals are ranked above the Astros in the division. Not that I disagree. The Reds are probably better than fifth place, though.

Oh, and maybe today the Orioles trade Bedard to the Mariners. Maybe.

Oh, and Replacement Level Yankees Weblog has another run at the Diamond Mind Baseball simulation, this time with the Mets having Santana. The Cubs have improved since his last run with the CAIRO projections for reasons I don't know. The Mets look pretty good, all told - but I still think their rotation's depth is very questionable.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Chicago Cubs

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Chicago Cubs, Trade Rumors

The Boston Globe says the Cubs and Os are still talking about Roberts and Bedard. And then maybe dealing Matt Murton to San Diego. I have no idea how well sourced the Boston papers are when it comes to Cubs/Padres/Orioles trades, but I pass it along for you to consider.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Trade Rumors

Baltimore Sun beat writer Roch Kubatko - awesome name, by the way - says that Eric Bedard should be moving later this week. To the Mariners, most likely.

If there is going to be a Brian Roberts trade, that would be about when you would expect it to go down. I still see no reason to trade Sean Gallagher in this, but I don't think my opinion is being solicited by Cubs brass so it probably doesn't matter.

Labels: Baltimore Orioles, Baseball, Brian Roberts, Chicago Cubs, Seattle Mariners, Trade Rumors